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Port secrecy denies public right to investigate corporate character

Port secrecy denies public right to investigate corporate character
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Almost two years ago, then Port of Coos Bay CEO Jeff Bishop made a bold pronouncement which was dutifully distributed verbatim by the local press. “A substantial business with commercial interests in the Coos Bay Area”, he proclaimed, “asked the port to resume rail service by June 20 so that the business could ‘take advantage of an economic opportunity for itself and for the Coos Bay area’.” Bishop could not reveal the identity of the company citing confidentiality but this opportunity, he claimed, required the port to declare a state of emergency so it could make swift repairs to the Coos Bay Rail Link to enable from 100 to 500 carloads of freight per month.

Amid much local excitement about the possibility of new jobs The World published Bishop’s claims which were in turn picked up by other media including the Longshore and Shipping News but unfortunately none of it was true. Bishop had made the entire “emergency” up and the port even lied about having a NDA (non-disclosure agreement) to avoid having to comply with public record requests. The port lied to the public and provided false hope with the promise of imminent new jobs and the paper either considered such lies commonplace or never considered it newsworthy enough to correct the record.

Once again the port is making news over its economic development plans but this time because it has dug in its heels once again claiming confidentiality to avoid providing public records regarding a controversial coal export terminal. Coos County Circuit Judge Paula Bechtold says the port “abused its discretion” when it presented monetary roadblocks to the Sierra Club seeking records on proposed coal exports. As reported in The Oregonian

The port showed “bad faith,” the judge said, when it demanded that the Sierra Club provide detailed information about the group’s membership and finances before the port would decide whether to waive nearly $20,000 in fees to produce the records.

“The strong inference can be drawn that the port’s actual intent was to force the Sierra Club to fold its tent and go away,” Bechtold said in an oral ruling delivered last Friday.

As an economic development agency the port conducts itself as the “authority” on maritime commerce and gives no regard to whether the public would even want to invite some of these undisclosed companies into the area. The Sierra Club unearthed information about one of the companies the port wants to entice to Coos Bay, the huge Japanese conglomerate, Mitsui.

Mitsui was embroiled in several scandals in the early-mid 2000s. In early 2002, Mitsui employees enlisted the help of a government official to interfere in bidding for a project on a Russian island. In mid-2002, news came out that the company had bribed a senior Mongolian government official in order to get orders for a power project. In 2003, Mitsui shut down one of its petrochemical plants, which failed inspections that took place because the company admitted to falsifying safety reports. In 2006, Mitsui oil traders were convicted of falsifying accounts to hide losses amounting to 81 milllion U.S. dollars.

Metro Ports another company protected by a port NDA is embroiled in several lawsuits and may not be the type of company that should be welcomed in Coos County as neighbors or employers but as a developer, the port doesn’t care. It can be argued that these NDAs, (if and when they actually exist), do more to protect the poor decisions of the port administrators than the companies they claim to be working with.
Watch this informative video about the coal industry and how it profits at taxpayer expense.

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About magix

Avatar of magix When my oldest son, a Marine, left for war and crossed the border from Kuwait into Iraq in March 2003 I started writing my conscience. After two tours that young combat veteran’s mother is now an ardent peace activist and advocate for social, environmental and economic justice. MGx has matured since those early vents and ramblings and now covers relevant and important local and regional matters in addition to national and global affairs.

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49 Responses to "Port secrecy denies public right to investigate corporate character"

  1. themguys  February 4, 2013 at 5:41 PM

    Bravo M !!!!!

    Clark Wallworth feels no need whatsoever to inform his subscribers that he was conned into believing the lies, evidently, the Port of Coos Bay was tossing around like so much salad. Never once mentioned it. Refused to inform the people/voters of Coos County the truth about the Port of Coos Bay.

    Is any of this ever going to be considered illegal? F moral, no such thing in the Port leadership, my humble opinion only, yes sir.

    How can this continue?

    Thank you so much M., it’s waaaay past time for the truth.

    Reply
  2. susanp  February 4, 2013 at 7:41 PM

    Re dearly departed Bishop and our dear governor appointed political board of commissioners who find it so easy to shift from fact to fiction. Todays words are galligaskins Bishop and circumbilivagination. I knew that if I studied I would use these words some day. Wouldnt it be nice if the governor notified these appointees that they work for the people of Oregon and specifically for the Coos County taxpayers who are supporting this do nothing organization.

    Reply
  3. Avatar of aghast!
    aghast!  February 4, 2013 at 8:01 PM

    You didn’t mention all this happened under new state rep Caddy McKeown’s watch

    Reply
  4. Pig Nuts  February 4, 2013 at 9:32 PM

    “state of emergency so it could make swift repairs”

    I think it appropriate to do a FOI request disclosing all contractors utilized in providing its services under the fictitious state of emergency. I assume under such emergencies standard operating procedures are foregone to expedite awarding contracts.

    Hmmm…

    I wonder if the port president’s company, a bridge building contractor West Coast Contractors, was assigned work, either consulting & or constructing under such fraudulent conditions?

    Is it time to inquire with the Department Of Justice?

    Anyone familiar with the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act?

    The DOJ is the one to investigate & bring charges. The IRS is another whom likes to examine such cases as well. The IRS has rewards for whistle blowers. The rat gets a percentage of everything they collect.

    Just because Bishop is gone does not make him or the Port immune to charges. Remember, Bishop was only the puppet, he will sing like a bird if he feels it would take the heat off him.

    Reply
  5. The Reminder  February 5, 2013 at 8:55 AM

    Maybe Caddy can give them some answers, maybe Jeff told her some inside info about that when they took their fact finding vacation to Europe, right before he left town.

    Reply
  6. The Reminder  February 5, 2013 at 9:13 AM

    Maybe I put the cart in front of the horse. Didn’t they take their energy education trip together before they announced their great idea to export coal to China?
    The Chinese people are about to riot over their air quality and the Japanese people are ready to join them since that pollution is being carried to them first. The Chinese are going to ban coal fired plants before the port and SCDC can get the plan to export coal put into place. Its just been another colossal waste of time by those agents. If this was what Caddy and Jeffry learned on their trip to learn about new energy industries, then they must have been trippin on the whole trip.

    Reply
  7. themguys  February 5, 2013 at 11:10 AM

    “The port lied to the public and provided false hope with the promise of imminent new jobs and the paper either considered such lies commonplace or never considered it newsworthy enough to correct the record.”

    It’s never too late to do the moral/professional thing Clark Wallworth, find your panties, and pull em up and tell your readers the truth about this one incident. Clark still has his readers thinking/believing the Port is always using private monies, they whoopie it up reading about the trains, the trains, all the while stating, “long as it isn’t using public monies, I’m all for it”. They have never been told what these Welfare Kings and Queens do with the poor blokes’ tax dollars. But evidently, Clark Wallworth can’t bring himself to step up and print the truth when confronted with it. Sad all around. Every community needs an honest, local news organization. Sadly, we have nothing, except this blog and Jody to tell us the truth.

    Reply
  8. Avatar of Tony
    TonyCapo  February 5, 2013 at 12:51 PM

    The paper isn’t even consistent with itself. Regarding the Port they say, “…The port admits the Sierra Club has a right to the records. But some of the information is legally confidential….”

    Yet they turn right around and editorialize about ORCCA with, “…Instead of clearing the air, ORCCA leaders retreated behind confidentiality rules….” and call citizens expressing their concerns “public carping.”
    Pretty low class IMHO.

    Reply
  9. al  February 6, 2013 at 11:36 AM

    I’m unclear as to what lawsuits have to do with a company’s character? There are thousands of lawyers out there – including environmental groups – that make a very lucrative living from frivolous lawsuits. Name two companies – even one company – in the Fortune 100 that isn’t being sued at any given time.

    Reply
    • Avatar of Tony
      TonyCapo  February 6, 2013 at 1:09 PM

      al
      9. Thou shall not assume “this” follows “that” when it has no logical connection. (Non Sequitur)

      Hence, “…may not be the type of company that should be welcomed in Coos County as neighbors or employers but as a developer, the port doesn’t care. It can be argued that these NDAs, (if and when they actually exist), do more to protect the poor decisions of the port administrators than the companies they claim to be working with….”

      It sure might help if we knew WTH the port and company(ies) were planning wouldn’t it?

      Reply
    • Avatar of magix
      magix  February 6, 2013 at 1:10 PM

      Excellent point, Al! No Fortune 100 companies should be welcomed much less invited to Coos County.

      Let’s build on small and sustainable businesses that don’t engage in actionable conduct in order to make it to the top

      Reply
  10. The Reminder  February 6, 2013 at 8:12 PM

    The port and SCDC have allies that go very deep inside the governors office. That’s the reason there have been no investigations by the DOJ. Those two organizations have been running under a cloak of secrecy since their inception. There have been numerous story’s here at this site about those two for years now, about private citizens trying to get a peek inside the back rooms. The public gets no answers because those in charge feel powerful enough to not have to provide any. How many people have tried to get the financial records of SCDC, only to be ignored. The same can be said of the port. They have never been open to the public and they never will be until a new Governor makes them cough up their secrets. Kitzhaber and Kulengoski have both been involved with the plans to appease the fossil fuel industries by holding this port hostage for their plans only. They will continue to ignore the public till the day they are voted out, and these are the democrats doing this. The chamber has been supporting them and are comprised of mostly Republicans, but these local democrats are doing all the grunt work for them. Changing your party affiliation from one to the other will not make a difference because this is a republicrat agenda. Writing your congressman will not work either because he has been in on the grand plan from the beginning. I know most of you reading this, already know this, but we must keep pointing it out over and over again to ever have a chance to make things change here in Coos County.
    At least SCDC didn’t get to change the county government to a system like the port has. Not yet.

    Reply
    • Bandonite  February 7, 2013 at 11:55 AM

      Do they ever have allies in the Governor’s office! See who is on the list, numbers 35 and 36!

      http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/10/oregon_gov_kitzhaber_leaves_on.html

      It’s also interesting the Gov has not nominated any replacements for the Port of Coos Bay. What’s holding it up?

      Reply
      • The Reminder  February 7, 2013 at 12:53 PM

        What’s holding it up? Money
        He has no intention of replacing any port commissioner. They know too much and he has as much to hide as Kronsteiner has.

        Reply
      • Avatar of Tony
        TonyCapo  February 7, 2013 at 2:52 PM

        Interesting. We need the county commissioners to kill the port district.

        Reply
  11. MarkM  February 7, 2013 at 10:09 AM

    Don’t get me wrong, I think the Port fails the transparency test, and Judge Bechtold decision is exactly right. But that GreenPeace video plays a little fast and loose with the facts too.

    For one thing, coal companies do sometimes pay as little as $1/ton for Powder Basin Coal, but that is only for the land lease. They still have to mine the coal, ship it, and restore the land. None of that is cheap. They make money to be sure, but it is far from the fleecing of the public that GP depicts.

    Also, the shipping impacts on (omg!) trains, it way overblown. How? This shipping is already happening. All that infrastructure has been in place for decades. We ship 100 car coal trains every day right now with little if any environmental impact. Not only that, much of it is being shipped right here to Oregon every day.

    Pacific Power produces 67% of its electricity from coal. All of that coal comes from Wyoming’s Powder Basin. Powder Basin coal is running your computer right now.

    http://www.oregon.gov/ENERGY/Pages/Oregons_Electric_Power_Mix.aspx

    GreenPeace also implies that if we don’t ship coal overseas, other countries just won’t burn coal. That is worse than wrong. Powder Basin coal has an ultra-low sulfur content. It is the cleanest burning coal on the planet. If South Korea can’t get this coal, they will just burn other coal, probably from Australia which is far dirtier. This will exacerbate climate change, not halt it.

    This is not the simplistic issue that GreenPeace would have you believe.

    Reply
  12. susanp  February 7, 2013 at 11:00 AM

    Sorry MarkM but Powder River coal is not running my computer and perhaps many more in the county.

    Reply
  13. The Reminder  February 7, 2013 at 12:20 PM

    The Myth of Clean Coal
    The coal industry and its allies are spending more than $60 million to promote the notion that coal is clean. But so far, “clean coal” is little more than an advertising slogan.
    http://e360.yale.edu/feature/the_myth_of_clean_coal/2014/

    Both sides of the issue can find all the evidence they need to support their argument. The coal industry can find plenty of hucksters willing to shill the product. Its all about the money.

    If the money spent on advertising and payoffs to politicians was instead used to build the infrastructures for clean power, it wouldn’t take long to replace the coal fired plants.

    Mark, you are the most ardent supporter of coal and LNG that has ever graced this site. You have done your homework on behalf of your sponsors and their bought politicians. You might even convince some people here that we should double down on coal supplied energy. Your argument would have a smoker switch from a non-filtered to a filter cigarette so they could get cancer a little slower.
    The coal industry has actually hired a pro tobacco advertising firm to reshape how the public sees the coal industry. Your would be working for free, except you expect the support from the friends of LNG and coal the next time you run for any political office.

    Reply
    • MarkM  February 7, 2013 at 4:15 PM

      I agree with you about clean coal technology. It is more theoretical than real at this point. We can add scrubbers to older coal plants and make them clean-er, but carbon capture has not proved workable yet even in a laboratory.

      But that’s not what I’m talking about.

      Powder River Basin coal starts out with a sulfur content that is five times lower than coal in the Eastern US. If you’re going to burn coal this is the coal to burn.

      And make no mistake, the US and the rest of the world burn a lot of coal today and will continue to burn more over the next several decades. There is just no way around that fact no matter how you might like to wish it away. The US produces 40% of its electricity from coal. That’s a lot of power.

      And yes, if you’re on the grid some of that electricity coursing through your computer right now did indeed come from coal, even if you are like me and purchase Blue Sky windpower. It all gets mixed together and run through the same delivery system. You can see how coal is shipped across the US from our six coal basins on this helpful interactive map at the EIA. Click on it and discover where Oregon gets its coal.

      http://www.eia.gov/coal/transportationrates/

      Part of the solution to climate change is keeping the dirtiest coal in the ground and burning the cleanest coal we have available instead. Shipping it overseas makes sense because that’s where it’s needed. I’m not convinced that shipping it through Coos Bay is the right place to do it, but I know it’s the right thing to do.

      Reply
  14. themguys  February 7, 2013 at 2:32 PM

    Mark is as right as he was waxing eloquently about all that “freedom wafting through the Middle East” for the last two years. Your GDamned Democrats led by obama have screwed the pooch in the Middle East, and once again, hillary and obama backed the wrong guys. In fact, they’ve been supplying arms to the very enemy we’ve been fighting. So Mark, your great understanding of issues still sucks, and you are STILL backing the wrong guys here.

    Progressive my old arse, you wouldn’t recognize progressive if it bit you in the butt, Mark.

    Reply
  15. richard Chasm  February 7, 2013 at 2:59 PM

    The Reminder hit the nail right on the head.

    Reply
  16. The Reminder  February 7, 2013 at 4:28 PM

    The Reminder
    February 3, 2013 – 9:33 am
    There are only two valid reasons to support these types of projects.
    1. You are expecting some personal monetary gain.
    2. Lack of education.

    Reply
  17. The Reminder  February 7, 2013 at 5:39 PM

    MarkM
    February 7, 2013 – 4:53 pm
    So I’m greedy and stupid. See how simple that is?

    So I’m greedy and or stupid or both. Is that your final answer?

    Reply
    • MarkM  February 7, 2013 at 5:45 PM

      No, but it seems to be yours.

      I’ve levied criticisms of the GreenPeace video that have gone unanswered. I’ve discussed the complexity of the climate change problems and its geopolitics, but it has fallen on deaf ears. Just the usual personal attacks. Maybe you could ask me a serious question. I’d be glad to return a final answer.

      Reply
  18. The Reminder  February 7, 2013 at 5:51 PM

    I went to the link you posted. It kind of reminds me of the oily feeling I get when I watch fox news. Consider who your source is when you regurgitate limitations. This is who published your great news about the nuclear needs of the world.

    Statoil ASA, trading as Statoil and formerly known as StatoilHydro, is a Norwegian oil and gas company, formed by the 2007 merger of Statoil with the oil and gas division of Norsk Hydro.[2] The Government of Norway is the largest shareholder in Statoil with 67% of the shares. The ownership interest is managed by the Norwegian Ministry of Petroleum and Energy.[3]
    Statoil is a fully integrated petroleum company with operations in thirty-six countries. By revenue, Statoil was ranked by Fortune Magazine as the world’s thirteenth largest oil and gas company in 2010, and the largest company in the Nordic region by revenue, profit, and market capitalization.[4]

    Reply
    • MarkM  February 7, 2013 at 6:48 PM

      I’m confused. The article I posted was published by Slate and written by Keith Kloor. How are either of them connected to Statoil? NASA’s Jim Hansen is the key player in my reading.

      Many climate scientists and environmentalists are turning to nuclear power as our best — and maybe only — hope of thwarting climate change. Check out this story and some of the links. The new movie “Pandora’s Promise” sounds very provocative. Therein lies the complexity of this global issue.

      http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2013/01/24/pandora_s_promise_review_nuclear_power_documentary_is_persuasive_and_timely.html

      Reply
  19. The Reminder  February 7, 2013 at 5:57 PM

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statoil

    Thats the source that pushes your energy beliefs, that promote nuclear as the savior.

    Statoil ASA, trading as Statoil and formerly known as StatoilHydro, is a Norwegian oil and gas company, formed by the 2007 merger of Statoil with the oil and gas division of Norsk Hydro.[2] The Government of Norway is the largest shareholder in Statoil with 67% of the shares. The ownership interest is managed by the Norwegian Ministry of Petroleum and Energy.[3]
    Statoil is a fully integrated petroleum company with operations in thirty-six countries. By revenue, Statoil was ranked by Fortune Magazine as the world’s thirteenth largest oil and gas company in 2010, and the largest company in the Nordic region by revenue, profit, and market capitalization.[4]

    Reply
  20. al  February 7, 2013 at 5:58 PM

    Mary – Apple was once a “small and sustainable business”. So was Microsoft, and Google, and Cisco, IBM, HP, Ford, Harley-Davidson, etc.. Perhaps you would propose that we cap companies on success? Maybe we can give them a major slap-down when they hit $100 million in revenue – or less? Or force them to shut down once they hire a thousand or more Americans?

    And did you really state that we shouldn’t allow any Fortune 100 companies in Coos County? And that, folks, is a big reason why this county is wallowing in drugs, unemployment, welfare and perpetual poverty. Sorry, but count me out. I have higher expectations for my family and for this community. If you want to live in a dying community then head for Stockton, Merced or Fresno. Residents of those cities tell me the San Fernando valley towns are beginning to look like third-world countries. You would probably be very happy there.

    Reply
    • MarkM  February 7, 2013 at 6:53 PM

      I don’t mind having Fortune 500 companies here. I just don’t want to have to rely on one or two of them for our economic existence. That’s just the kind of plantation economy we’ve had in the past and need to grow out of.

      Reply
    • Avatar of Tony
      TonyCapo  February 7, 2013 at 10:06 PM

      Again al, 9. Thou shall not assume “this” follows “that” when it has no logical connection. (Non Sequitur)

      Someday you may make a logical connection instead of ramble incoherently. If you want a fortune 100 company then walk into Walmart. They did so much for downtown.

      Reply
      • Avatar of magix
        magix  February 7, 2013 at 10:34 PM

        sweet!

        Reply
  21. MarkM  February 7, 2013 at 6:54 PM

    I’d like to hear someone defend the video.

    Reply
  22. susanp  February 7, 2013 at 7:10 PM

    AL, re San Fernando Valley, you are correct. In 1968 we bought property known as Pepper Tree Farm, once owned by actress Barbara Stanwyck. This Northridge property was part of a 15000 snooty rich people community. Today it is a ghetto, primarily non papers carrying immigrants. The worst of Coos County is better than Van Nuys, Panorama City, Pacoima, Reseda, Canoga Park, and other nearby cities. English, a second language, is spoken by few. The people kept out industry. They even fought Price Club – now Costco. Major employers like Lockheed departed Burbank. The only jobs that will be created locally will be by companies that we embrace. And, we have not embraced any recently.

    Reply
  23. The Reminder  February 10, 2013 at 2:07 PM

    TonyCapo, you have set up too large a task for Mark to deal with.
    He speaks the policy of our current set of representatives when talking about energy. He has the courage to face these questions, unlike those we have elected to represent us at the state level and most if not all of the ones at the federal level as well. Maybe that’s how he has to earn their respect and his future in the party.
    They will make the decision to back their sponsors, smiling and nodding in agreement with some ideas and positions they are exposed to, while they have a firm commitment to not changing their goals and minds and votes. That is the lesson they have learned that propels them to office. Mark knows that’s how Joanne, Arnie, and Caddy have survived this long. Be nice, smile and make the opponents to your positions feel like they have found an interested and caring ear. The trick is to do that while never, ever changing your mind or position. He’s working on perfecting that part.
    That’s the kind of politicians we have representing us at the state level. All you have to do is get in line and pull on the same rope, don’t make any waves inside the party and you will get your chance to get a seat if your patient and support the same positions. That’s why Mark and the other party reps want you to be a democrat, or a republican, if your not going to register as a democrat. As long as your one or the other the same party sponsors win. They both fear the growing movement to be an Independent because their sponsors will eventually loose control of the system, a system that makes them very rich at everyone’s expense.
    That’s the fatal flaw in our system, its too easily influenced and controlled by greed.
    Mark will adamantly tell us that it is a waste of time to be an independent. I will argue that it is a powerful way to make a change in the system. If we all got in one of their lines we would not be getting told to get back in the line and we would never see any change in goals or policy. True we don’t get to have a choice in the party primary’s and that’s where they choose the next in line, but we have them sweating the drop in membership. This will make them change their positions if they want those contrary voters back in their line. Its going to take some time but the two party system will fail and suffer the same loss of control that the Catholic religion and other religions as well have been experiencing with life long members leaving the churches because they stay stuck in the past. The public is wising up and outgrowing the dogma of religion and politics.

    Reply
    • MarkM  February 10, 2013 at 3:46 PM

      TR, that is a long way of saying: “No Comment” to any of the real issues I raised. Here’s a bit of political advice you sorely need — Do not waste your time questioning the motives of others. It is the one thing you indubitably know nothing about.

      Rest assured, if I were running — or planning to run — for anything, the last thing I would do is come here to troll for votes.

      I come here for honest, open discussion of important topics for Coos County, Oregon, and the US. All too often I am greatly disappointed.

      Excuse me while I investigate TC’s links.

      Reply
      • The Reminder  February 10, 2013 at 4:22 PM

        You made your questions open to the public. I didn’t know it was up to me to satisfy your thirst for knowledge. I don’t think your running for anything, yet.
        You don’t think we should question the motives of others? How else will we learn what they are about? I state my opinions based on observing others. If you don’t like the results of my observations then that can’t be helped.
        You have been trying to trap a few voters here at this site for a long time and you have in the past tried to convince others to join the party and I know you are a student of our elected officials and yes I believe you have something to gain by promoting their agenda. I haven’t tried to figure out what your exact reward will be for being their local shill, but there is a reward in your sight, otherwise you would not be carrying their water, that would just make you a fool. My observations of those involved with the port’s agenda have shown that they are all looking to profit.

        Reply
      • Avatar of Tony
        TonyCapo  February 10, 2013 at 8:43 PM

        So Mark, we should really seriously consider letting a multi-national corporation mine US owned coal gained at fire-sale rates, then transport it by rail subsidized by taxpayers, to locations that don’t want it and where it will add no value to the community, all the while exposing the environment and people to pollution, inconvenience, and danger so it can be sold and shipped to foreign destinations because it is good for the environment? LOL, boy you sure do have the religion. Can you not understand YOU represent the radical extremist?

        Reply
  24. The Reminder  February 10, 2013 at 3:40 PM

    Thank you TonyCapo for the link you posted. There is a lot of great info at that site. a lot of the same issues will be faced by this community if coal comes to town. Its pretty obvious that Coos Bay is being reserved as the back-up export facility if the residents of Washington put up too large a fight against the coal interests. Those mile long trains will put all the residents of Lakeside at risk if they happen to have an emergency while the train is moving through town at 10 miles an hour.

    Reply
  25. The Reminder  February 10, 2013 at 4:34 PM

    Mark and Al. You two guys are just different sides to the same coin. You both support the same agenda and interests. Do you really think that the public can’t see through your veneer. Al likes to create distractions with dribble and Mark likes to ask everyone questions and then claim that they never satisfy him all the while he will avoid any sent his direction. There I just made an observation.

    Reply
  26. The Reminder  February 10, 2013 at 4:53 PM

    This is the link that I thanked TonyCapo for. Just to save you some time trying to figure it out.
    http://www.coaltrainfacts.org/key-facts

    Reply
  27. al  February 11, 2013 at 4:27 PM

    Nothing to hide here, Reminder. I am unashamedly, unabashedly, without doubt, for jobs and economic growth. And I’m quite certain that most people know where I stand on this issue. We are all dependent upon growth – even you. Perhaps especially you, depending upon your personal circumstances.

    Oh, and in the interest of fair and balanced reporting, here’s a website for the OTHER side of the coal position – the PRO side. Between your biased piece by the D.C. non-profit and this biased piece by the coal industry, perhaps readers can find some middle ground on the issue – that is usually where the truth lies.

    http://www.nrplp.com/default.aspx/MenuItemID/523/MenuGroup/_Power+of+Coal.htm

    Reply
  28. Avatar of magix
    magix  February 11, 2013 at 4:35 PM

    “We are all dependent upon growth”
    Herein lies the problem, growth is unsustainable and therefore casting dependence upon unsustainable growth is a really bad business strategy. It’s why banks fail and Enrons collapse and dare I make the comparison… why Bernie Madoff is now in prison

    Reply
  29. The Reminder  February 11, 2013 at 7:09 PM

    Al I see you went to your first line of defense. Accuse anyone against LNG and coal exporting of being non-pro-growth. If you knew anything about what you were reading at this site, then you would know that there is not one single person posting here that advocates zero growth. Any community that doesn’t grow will die. We just want to change the direction that growth will take, so we don’t have to all die all at once.

    Reply
  30. The Reminder  February 11, 2013 at 7:25 PM

    What untruth did you find, in what link? You can’t expect any response to criticism if your not specific.

    Reply
  31. Avatar of Tony
    TonyCapo  February 11, 2013 at 7:29 PM

    Number 10 al:
    10. Thou shall not claim that because a premise is popular, therefore it must be true. (Bandwagon fallacy)

    Sometimes there is no middle ground. When something isn’t right, it’s just not right, and waste is waste. I’d hazard to guess the port has already wasted close to $100 million on the railroad by now and they keep looking for more suckers.

    BTW, I’ll show you mine…

    “In Australia, Wind Power Is Already Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels, And Solar Is Right Behind
    ThinkProgress
    According to the latest research from Bloomberg New Energy Finance, electricity from wind power can now be supplied more cheaply in Australia than power from either coal or natural gas — and solar and other forms of renewable energy aren’t far behind….”

    http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/02/10/1566881/in-australia-wind-power-is-already-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-and-solar-is-right-behind/

    We need to start thinking “grid parity,” at the retail level for new plants to correctly compare alternatives.

    Reply

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